Awesome Turbo Setup (MUST READ)

[stealth]

again nice
good numbers and cheap!
cheers stealth

[SpEc_OpS]

Video of last sundays dyno day guys here u can see we never reached full noise but should be all up and running fine by the end of the week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlFXWWhG630

[GC75]

;)

[Sigmaproject]

Remember this Wagon. The guy had receipts for $20K spent on the motor alone.

Total cost was $40K and if my memory is correct, 400hp

Was recently for sale for $14K

[SpEc_OpS]

Remember this Wagon. The guy had receipts for $20K spent on the motor alone.

Total cost was $40K and if my memory is correct, 400hp

Was recently for sale for $14K

Is it just me or is that a completely different motor with a turbo :?

Sure theres cars out there cheaper with more power but i think it would be very hard to find a vc with all the same gear plus this much love and attention to detail for the same price or cheaper. Ive known the car since it was a stocker i know how much time, effort and money hes poured into this car. Ray (guy who i bought it off) does everything properly no corner cutting no cheap ripoffs i got a really good deal. And as ive already said he replaced every rubber every nut every bushing with new bits and taken the heavy duty or aftermarke/ performance option were it was available he even replaced the door rubbers and there was nothing wrong with them. Plus the paintjob is a custom colour he mixed up himself when he was working at auto1 and he has done a beutiful job of it. Once i get the car back and its a nice sunny day ill take more photos to show u just how schmick everything is.

Personally i think hes an idiot for selling it and ive talked him out of selling it before (only cos i couldnt afford it back then ). Plus i know he will regret selling it and never seeing it again so im happy to take it off his hands and look after it for him hes already said that he wants to help me if i do anymore to it.

[psshhhht]

that VC is nice! Might make "only" 400hp but damn it'd make some insane torque I bet! Nice buy mate!

[DragonCypher]

hell no i wouldnt touch a holden v8 if you paid me!
ford,chev,and mopar/HEMI
cheers stealth

Chev make all the V8's for holdens now don't they? or are you just referring to the older ones?

Is it just me or is that a completely different motor with a turbo :?

The 2 most common forced induction upgrades for an astron (and yes, its still an astron in that there wagon)..
is suck-through carby turbo as seen on factory sigma turbos
or blow-through magna EFI turbo, which many of the higher powered sigma's/galants have as the turbos are bigger and they're electronically controlled with a cheap and simple magna setup (and aftermarket computer)

I personally love the unconventional stuff though as everyone has their own weird and wonderful way of engineering things and getting around the difficulties involved, which makes it rather interesting.

[Sigmaproject]

Remember this Wagon. The guy had receipts for $20K spent on the motor alone.

Total cost was $40K and if my memory is correct, 400hp

Was recently for sale for $14K

If you are refering to me, I wasnt bagging him. I was just stating that this guy spent $20 grand on an engine for a Sigma. Doesnt happen every day im sure. He is just a little paranoid and thought I was comparing the 2 cars.

[Sigmaproject]

[

I personally love the unconventional stuff though as everyone has their own weird and wonderful way of engineering things and getting around the difficulties involved, which makes it rather interesting.

There is nothing more weird and wonderful than actually getting a factory suck through to run perfectly

[amgis_obrut]

[

I personally love the unconventional stuff though as everyone has their own weird and wonderful way of engineering things and getting around the difficulties involved, which makes it rather interesting.

There is nothing more weird and wonderful than actually getting a factory suck through to run perfectly

gotta say i like the unconventional way too, im just about to do something to the G spec that is right up this ally

[SpEc_OpS]

I googled remote mounted turbos and found a very interesting post which i spent an hour or so reading found here

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/power ... turbo.html

This guy who i personally think is a genius turned his 16 sec daily driver into a 13 sec car with 1 days worth of downtime and its FWD

Heres his website has all the info u need, EVEN shows you how to make your own dual stage boost controller
http://www.khturbo.net/

After more research on this setup i might try it with the scorpion if i have enough funds left after blue slip and rego on my gfs new camry. Main reasons are im a P-plater (id have my full licence by now if i hadnt lost it so many times :? ) and i think itd be cool to do plus i still have a point to prove

Im thinking i MAY (may beeing the key word here) try it with a xf falcon webber and add a injector just before the carby activated by a 2-3 psi vaccuum switch thats if im doing it the cheap way otherwise itl be efi all the way.

Just goes to show a lil out of the box thinking can go a long way.

[psshhhht]

yeah man, stick to it and good luck with it. Looking forward to watching your progress!

[woops]

I'm just going to give my 2 cents of input here

The biggest problem i can see with the remote mounted turbos is energy loss.

Ok starting at basics.

Turbos work by using the exhaust energy which comes as pressure and thermal energy and is essentially unused energy from the combustion to spin a turbine. This then compresses the inlet air and forces more air into the engine improving the quantity of air entering the engine.

By mounting the turbos at the rear of the exhaust you lose a lot of energy from the exhaust system by pressure losses and thermal losses through the exhaust. When the exhaust exits the the engine it is somewhere between about 300 and 500 degrees C (on a naturally aspirated engine and can reach much higher temperatures on forced induction engines) but by the time the exhaust has gotten to the end of the system it has dropped to much below that to probably closer to about 100 to 150 degrees.

The greater the temperature of combustion the more power produced. This is why modern engines run at much higher temperatures then engines from 30 years ago. The only thing that prevents modern engines running hotter is the material not being able to operate at the higher temperatures. This is also shown by power stations running their power turbines at very high temperatures to gain the best efficiencies.

The more energy which is lost in the exhaust system the less energy if left over to spin the turbine.
In the website advertising it actually says that the turbos run cooler showing this. Exhaust manifold are ceramic coated or wrapped to keep the most energy in the exhaust system and also protecting the surrounding engine bay from the exhaust temp.

Also the turbine has to compress the air all the way up to the engine again which has even more pressure losses over that entire length of intercooler piping. The lag associated with compressing this amount of air would be very noticeable.

This kind of system has been set up for V8's where there is very little space in the engine bay but this is why many of these kind of cars will actually have the turbo mounted as close to the engine as possible like at about the end of the extractors to gain the highest exhaust temperature. Also these systems use scavenger pumps to pump the oil back to the sump after the turbo and have problems from water splashing from the road on the turbo potentially causing cracking of the hot components.


Also the reason for using EFI over carby is for drivability and reliability. Engines make the most power at a A/F ratio of about 12:1 and have the best thermal efficiency at about 13-14:1. The reason for why some of the cars with carbies are making huge power is because they would probably have their A/F ratio at about 12:1 at the point where they produce maximum power. Though this doesn't mean that they have had that same A/F ratio over their entire rev range and load range. Carbies struggle to maintain a constant A/F ratio and this is where EFI comes into play.

EFI has the benefit of being able to achieve a desired A/F ratio according to the amount of sensors and readings eg throttle opening, air flow, air density and read off the required fuel from the maps and output from the oxygen sensor. This will give a much better torque curve or in other words the engine will have better power at a more usable rev range. It also leads to better fuel economy at ligh load if tuned correctly.

Just putting an injector to fire fuel into the system under boost would result in just stopping the engine completely or if lucky massive flooding of the engine giving large amounts of black smoke out the exhaust. Then as the fuel requirements of the engine keep going with revs and boost then it could lead to lean out and detonation destroying the engine completely. You can get a basic old programmable fuel only ECU for about 2 to 3 hundred bucks which would be infinitely better then one injector.

This option "may" increase your power output from the engine but it will be very inefficient in it's design and operation.

I'm almost finished my degree in mechanical engineering and have had plenty of experience in modifying cars over the years and from the sounds of your intended setup there are too many problems with it's operation to be able to produce reliable performance.

When it comes to modifying cars there are three words to keep in mind. Power, reliability and cheap. Choose two of them because you won't be able to have all three.

[SpEc_OpS]

Very well said woops and i do agree but this is just a car to get my hands dirty with it aint a daily and im definately not searching for big power just doing it for fun. If im going to do it seriously ill be going efi with a aftermarket ecu taking care of the whole turbo/efi setup. And mounting the turbo right at the end of the extractors just out of view from a certain blue uniformed group. Also running a magna head maybe get it flowed? If i can afford it aftermarket valves and some roller rockers.

[astronturbo77]

what ended up happening here? did he end up running as fast as his mouth?

[ISKA8]

your a killer..

[dvsfin]

I would like to point out a few things from an engineering point of view in favour of this build, the loss of energy from the exhaust to the back would be minimal and the turbo will spool fine as long as it's not too big, even if you mount it on an turbo manifold in the engine bay a lot of this energy is going through the wastegate and being "wasted" anyway...it doesn't take as much energy as you may think to spool a turbo for low boost, its not like he was planning on running 30+psi

And the other point that was being thrown around here too much is the length of the piping from the compressor side being too long and losing pressure etc, have you ever looked under the bonnet of a standard ba xr6 turbo? To put it simply, in the new series falcon, they revised the intercooler setup and have removed over 7 feet of intercooler piping, how far do you think it is from the back of a scorpion to the front.

There are plenty of cars out there proving that this works and making good power with a stock look, and I am not talking about bombed out shit boxes who have just done it because it's cheap and are hoping to make easy power, as there are quite a few cars with price tags over 100k with this setup.

Some of the members that commented on this thread should stop being so close minded just because it is not something that they would endeavour into themselves.

Yes, it is quite likely that this will never eventuate or that he was full of shit and that he had no idea what he is talking about and the fact that he had bought a whole bunch of obviously second hand pieces and hoped to slap them together himself in his backyard or whatever. But the topic itself of rear mounted turbos working is sound and has been proven many times.

And yes, I also understand that this thread is from 2 years ago lol I was just bored and felt like posting my 2 cents =P