Timing problems!

[tommyhagenb]

Hi all. I had off the timingchain cover the other day,to tighten the balancechain. It was due to ratteling noise from the chain touching the inside of the cover. I also changed the gaskets on the waterpump,timingchain cover,oilpan and top cover. I had of the distributor and all other stuff. And made a stupid mistake by not taking care of the position of the distributor and the crankshaft etc. Anyways, my problem is this:

All is put back togheter. I have set the disributor and crankshaft according to the TDC mark. I also dobbelcheck by taking out the sparkplug and actually saw that the piston was on top. So i got the distributor the crankshaft and the piston all set up and ready to go. But nada luck. At one point I got the car running but it only ran on nr 1-2-3 sylinder. There is spark on them all, and spark in the distributour.

I have not had any chains off so that is not an issue.

i find it wierd. Any takers?

The engine is a 4G52 2000cc

Cheers, Tommy

[cheaterparts]

have you checked the the timing is set to the compression stroke and not the change over

take the rocker cover off and turn the motor over by hand ( is easer with the plugs out ) and watch the rockers
when No 4 exhuast is closing watch your timing mark on the crank just before TDC the inlet will just start to move

so when this happens on No 4 , No1 is ready to fire this is where your dizzy should be set to No 1

hope that is some help

[Turbo047]

Hi Tommy,

Sound like you may be 180 degrees out, remembering the crank turns twice for every rotation of the cam. So make sure the No1 is just at the end of the compression stroke and not finishing off an exhaust stroke.

You can make sure by lifting off the rocker cover and watching the valves as you bar the engine over. Bar it over and watch for the #1 intake valve opening, and as it closes then you are on the compression stroke. Keep baring it over till your timing mark on the crank pulley lines up with the timing marks and there you are at TDC. Now try and set the dizzy again.

[tommyhagenb]

thanks guys, I'll check your tips later on today. I also forgot to say that I set up everything with the cam lobes on piston #1 facing outwards. I belive that also is a sign that the TDC is on it's compression stroke. But I'll try some more. I don't thing I'm overseeing something?

[81GL]

At one point I got the car running but it only ran on nr 1-2-3 sylinder

How long did it run for?

If it ran for a small period of time, probably haven't got enough advance in the timing: Whether that is due to rotating the distributor more or you are a tooth out is for you to find out
-If you are unsure of what your looking at with the timing, get a timing light

[tommyhagenb]

Alright, so I finally got some time to work on the car again. I found the mistake, and it was small and easy. One of the sparkwire had a crak in it, so there was little to no connection. Strange though since it's only a year old. Anyways, I got her running, but not as she supposed to. I bought a timing lamp, and trying to set the timing right. But the problem is that the car stops unless I keep my foot on the gas. When i start her she is running somewhat ok while the choke is on. But if i stop her after 10 min or so, and start her again she won't run on normal idle. I took her out for a drive, and she cant take it when i try to accelerate. Struggeling and caufing. I recon this all has to do with timing. Someone sad that the engine might be off a tooth or moore, and if so, the timingmarks won't be acccurate? If I understand correctly you are supposed to set the timing when the engine is hot. I have set the camshaft lined up with the TDC mark on the timingchain cover, and the dowel pin at 12 o'clock. And put the dizzy in according to its mark. I also tried to watch the points in the dizzy and belive i got that right. But I'm still having no change in the car's behavior. I took out the sparkplugs and saw they were dry and smoked. Indicating excessive fuel mixture. I find all these thing strange since I never took off any chains. But it's really not important. I just need it fixed, and I would really appreciate any thougs and ideas. Anyone?

[amehel0]

did you tension the chains correctly as per the workshop manuals recommendations? did you ever touch the carb. the black soot could be due to having the timing so far off that the fuel air mixture isnt burning properly. perhaps some engine specs would be helpful. and yes timing should be done with a warm engine. check that you have steady idle at the correct rpm. is your car carb'd and did you touch anything on it. sometimes something simple like a disconnected accel pump spring or idle solenoid wire can cause problems. also keep in mind that the dizzy rotor is pointing to no 1 on the comp stroke when its actually engaged with the cam gear not before you slot it in. i find taking the cam cover off and the dizzy cap makes it alot easier

[tommyhagenb]

Hi.
I tensioned the chain with my hand. i did not follow any specifics even thoug i have the Haynes manual. I belive that the gap you're allowed to tension the chain is much smaller than the gap you have to adjust the dizzy. So I don't think that matters. But I'll check it. I insert the dizzy according to it's mark's. I know that one is right
I also, after putting everything togheter and realising that it did not run, tried to turn the idle adjuster on the carb. I counted my turns, and noticed that it did nothing, so I turned it back. I belive that the timing is to far off. I will work on the car this weekend and see if I can figure it out. Check for loose wires,springs etc... Thanks for feedback

[geezer101]

I may be letting myself in for the "Yes, I put the distributor in right!" comment - but did you insert the distributor with the rotor button to the right of the #1 mark on the distributor so it lines itself with the marking as you push it in? Buy new ignition parts to elminate any glitches (plugs, cap, rotor button, points and condenser) and set your plug gaps correctly. If your dwell angle is too low or high it'll refuse to play ball. If you have points ignition the most valuable tuning gadget you can own is a dwell meter. It will kill using feeler gauges to set your points for accuracy every time

[cheaterparts]

If your dwell angle is too low or high it'll refuse to play ball. If you have points ignition the most valuable tuning gadget you can own is a dwell meter. It will kill using feeler gauges to set your points for accuracy every time

I agree you can get the dwell better with a dwell guage but a gap from 0.010" to 0.020" should be good enough to at least make it run
my guess is thats its still a tooth out and retarted - not advanced

do you have a points dizzy - if so connect a 12volt light from the neg side of the coil to an earth
then turn the engine by hand with the ingition turned on and the coil lead removed
or even better with the plugs removed - easier to turn the engine and it wont fire up on you

now by turning the engine the light will come on when the points open this should happen twice per rev of the crank
once will be on your timing mark and once will be 180 away from your timing mark

so as your timing marks are coming up you just have to watch when the light just turns on and thats where the spark is happening
if its off your timing mark move it till its right

[amehel0]

not doubting your ability but have you made sure the firing order is correct for the 4g54 its 1342. also i found with older motors you can put the dizzy cap on 180* dizzy rotation due to the old plastic dizzy cap not keying properly.. get a timing light find out when it works what your running. u want 5* BTDC as a base. also the dizzy timing marks can be misleading. get #1 to TDC on the compression stroke. Take the rocker cover off. and spin the crank bolt clockwise . you will eventually notice the #1 inlet spring/valve/rocker go down. that's opening letting air. then it will recede towards you. it will stop receding then as you spin clockwise from the front the timing mark should appear. get it to TDC pull off the dizzy cap and see if the ignition leads are correct so that when the dizzy cap is on the rotor spinning clockwise it will follow the 1342 sequence. at the same time when you imagine the cap seated in does the rotor point to the #1 spark plug terminal? if it isnt pull the dizzy just enough so you can spin the rotor independantly of the motor. ignore the timing marks. once the CONTACT side of the dizzy rotor is pointing at the #1terminal after being seated fully it will be good just observe what happens with the rotor when you push the dizzy in. so you can guage the rotor position required prior to pushing it in so it meats #1 TDC. check vac leaks and that you have fuel just incase. check the timing while cranking should be around 0-5* BTDC,
if any fuel is present in the manny then if you have spark you should atleast have backfiring through the carb. check you have the dizzy vac line connected to the carbs dedicated dizzy vac nipple. but if theres petrol and spark you should at least have an engine that runs like a sour bitch. and refuses to not stall unless u tickle the throttle.

[amehel0]

been having the same troubles as you over the past few days with a dizzy on a 4g62. i had done the timing belt, cleaned the inlet many put Weber ADM 34 on it. first thing i did was remove all the vac lines, emission controls etc. all you want atm is vac advance for the dizzy. no PCV, EGR, . then i made sure fuel reached the carb and manually throttled the carb so i could hear the accel pump jets squirting. and that the fuel filter at the carb was good. then i mucked with the dizzy till i had 5* BTDC timing at idle which at the time was about 1500 rpm. then i got it running to 1100m at 5*BTDC and that idle speed was due to mixture not set screw adjustment. i had trouble because the car i worked on had a ,mild steel exhaust headers and system and no CAT so it took forever to getting on stoic but not so lean as to heat the extractors but not rich so that it backfires when turned off but still able to free rev. anyway half a day later the car is road going and it needs a dyno tune. the carb worked in a 4g54 (2.6) and I've got it in the 4662 (1.8L) so obviouslly will need new jets .eventually playing with the dizzy idle mixture and idle speed screw it runs well and is responsive now. It still needs dyno work, and a hall effect dizzy. the current ones vac advance is at best erratic. you should atleast get a squirming motor. also can help to give it a few accel pump squirts before cranking. but yeh never underestimate timing.it can be a bitch.