Respraying a Sigma

[Paddles]

That is a good price i would reckon, i have just resprayed my scorp, complete respray including some minor rust repairs and a new front window, it is just be polished this weekend, that cost me just under 5000 all up.

Paddles

[karl_2ltgc]

I'm interested in learning some paint skills. I got a compressor an just got a good paint gun.
Any recommended reading?

[Mr Aerospace]

Well, I was going to do it myself (before Kinglake disappeared off the map) as I'd basically shored up a massive shed with equally large space for an entire car, a whole bunch of drapes, and a nice large industrial compressor...something that won't run out of juice after 5mins of usage (an actual spray paint shop basically!)

Ok, so this would be the ultimate DIY setup, but it's not always in everone's reach. What something like this does is minimise the turnaround time between layers...the finish is really just dependent on how much work you put in.

For the lower end DIY, expect the following
Guns losing pressure, causing an uneven coverage...not cool (due to a piddly compressor with a piddly tank...and pressure regulators are either useless or non existent)
Kamikaze bugs...happens to all drying paint, the only way out is to purge the room of them using lots of drapes.
A hell of a lot more sanding (This part of the paintwork is crucial...this is where you will find you've done a lemon of a job, or a factory finish...

I suggest you find a local panel repairer/sprayer and just ask up, they're usually happy to lend you information...if not, you can always just go next door to the next one, until you find one that's sympathetic to your plea.

[Mr Aerospace]

And that's as far as I got to painting mine! I had everything prepped, including the car and space by Friday 6th Feb...

[karl_2ltgc]

I was just going to do a panel or two at a time to avoid some of the pitfalls of a home job.

[DanTurboLancer]

yeah i though about doing that too, but a mate who was a panel beater spray painter pointed out that different temps, different paint/thinners mixtures, different sanding, different air moister can affect your paint finish, so for a decent job doing it all at once is best.
But man if you are happy for a home job go for it, just measure your mixtures to keep them the same, and practice keeping your hand speed the same with the gun.


I was getting some paint lift throught the roof on my car and got a quote.
Bare metal 10Grand!!! just for a spray.
Told him to stick it!

[GC75]

good point Dan.

Anyone here actually do paint work? would be good to set up a service maybe for members here? im sure people would be willing to pay a decent amount and supply the equipment needed. 10 Grand for doing a paint job is bullshit, i find it silly how painters/panel beaters charge...

i wouldnt think painting a car would be to hard if it was a full time job... and im sure for the work involved 10 grand is just to generous. Thats basically a few months wages for people... wouldnt take that long to spray a care surely if it was full time work...

rip off i rekon.

[metaldrift]

TUFSIG
I've repainted a XF ute inside and out in white for $600 with good results (backyard job), also ( was quote with engine bay painted as that would be a more usually?) from working in mechanics/spay shop anything under $5000 from bare metal isn't a bad price.


If your going to do a back yard job and only got a small compressor try using a gravity fed gun, u have to mix up more often (smaller paint pot usaully) but they work better (speaking from experience anyway).
And me and a mate have resprayed 8-9 cars now, the more time you can put into prep the better the result, which does mean a lot of sanding and priming and some good reading materials are older panel/ fix it books from around the 1970's to 1990, they often have ideas and way's of doing things that younger spraypainters today don't know.

Hope that helps!

[HoonBoy]

Anyone who thinks 10k for a paint job is over the top, you need to look at the results of cheaper paint jobs 2-3 years down the track. The number of man hours involved in properly repainting a car is massive. It can take a full day to remove all of the chrome trim, lights, dorr handles, windows etc. you can't rush these things unless you want them replace the broken ones at the end. If you want the engine bay done, add some more time. If you want the interior bits done, then add some more time. Then you need another day to refit them all, more if the interior, engine etc. needs to be re-done. If you want it back to bare metal, then add a few days to strip it or $1,000 to $1,500 for media blasting. Then it needs rust repairs, dent repairs, ripple repairs etc. Any imperfections are much more obvious with fresh shiny paint. Forget the average persons wage when working out the prices as well. Electricity, rent, equipement etc is not cheap, $70 and hour would be a small charge and it would take a few weeks to do everything properly on an old car. You suddenly have $8,000 in labour costs.

By the time you add up the cost of the various paints, thinners, sandpaper, de-oxidiser, welding gas, booth costs etc. You won't have change from 2-3k for GOOD QUALITY materials. If you want to use the stuff that is designed for trailers and spray it at home, it will only be a few hundred, but unless you are going white, avoid cheap paint like the plague.

There is your 10k, it's not bullshit, it's reality of a proper job done during standard hours at a licensed workshop. Your backyard guy can charge a lot less simply because he is not factoring in the cost of his garage etc. to the work. But it will still be 5k minimum unless he is willing to work for nothing or there are other factors involved such as not having to do any paint removal, trim removal and re-fitting. It is a very labour intensive job and will always be expensive. Just be thankfull you don't want a show quality job, they start at 50k and can go upwards of 200-300k without much effort.

[amgis_obrut]

Anyone who thinks 10k for a paint job is over the top,

I gotta agree with you there some paint can be $1200 per litre


I painted the engine bay only in my transit and it nearly cost a grand just in product alone, if i had paid someone to do it i think it would be about $2500


I know a bloke thats spent about $70000 on body work and paint on his datto 1600

Most top 10 summernats cars have paint jobs starting at $50000

[tandanus]

This might not help, but IMHO your best bet is to find someone you trust and give the job to them. Spend some time talking to folk and eventually you'll get a feel for if they are interested or not. If they seeem interested, ask them if they'll come and look at the car at your place. Then go in to how much of the prep work you want to do yourself. I'd say leave the reassembly to them because if they have to do any panel work they'll want to get the gaps right. I was quoted $5k on a GA if I stripped it down myself. That included paint, labour, welding any rust and fixing any dents they found and reassembly. Being broke I decided to go with the original patina, but the experience of hawking photos of the car around to panel shops was a learning experience .
T.

[pistorf]

good point Dan.

Anyone here actually do paint work? would be good to set up a service maybe for members here? im sure people would be willing to pay a decent amount and supply the equipment needed. 10 Grand for doing a paint job is bullshit, i find it silly how painters/panel beaters charge...

i wouldnt think painting a car would be to hard if it was a full time job... and im sure for the work involved 10 grand is just to generous. Thats basically a few months wages for people... wouldnt take that long to spray a care surely if it was full time work...

rip off i rekon.

Take into account the time to dismantle and reassemble the car,paint strip and clean up,redoing any bogwork and small repairs.
Then there are all the materials used.
Hi Fill primers start at around $150 for 4 Litres,hardeners start around $40 per litre.
Then there are all the abrasives,tapes,paper,plastic etc.(the dry rubbing discs for a palm sander are $1.00 each)
Then there is the painters labour,spray booth /oven running costs,
Paint,hardners and reducers are not cheap either.
For those that sat panel shops are rip offs,try and run one and make a big profit when doing a job properly

[pistorf]

Anyone who thinks 10k for a paint job is over the top,

I gotta agree with you there some paint can be $1200 per litre


I painted the engine bay only in my transit and it nearly cost a grand just in product alone, if i had paid someone to do it i think it would be about $2500


I know a bloke thats spent about $70000 on body work and paint on his datto 1600

Most top 10 summernats cars have paint jobs starting at $50000

Some top 10 summernats car owners are full of shit as well.
My mates .69 Stang that was Mustang clubs gold award winner for 5 years was a $8000 all up bare metal,no bog mirror finish paint job,while a couple of my National Concourse winning classic paint jobs were done in less than 100 hours. When you take into consideration that paint rates range from $65 -$150 per hourincluding everything.

[75wagon]

Don't forget another thing on this topic.
Spraying a car in a garage means that it won't be in 2 pak, as 2pak is illegal to spray outside a booth.
I paint my cars at home on my driveway, in Acrylic Lacquer.
It cost me about $500 to $600 in materials and the results speak for themselves. It's not a pro job but I'm happy with it.

It's all about time. Some cars need more then others.
I don't paint peoples cars because I just about end up doing it for free. The amount of time is not worth it on someone else's car.
The only reason they ask you instead of a shop, is because they want a cheap job.
I know people who think $2k is too much for a respray.
I'll just stick to painting people's houses, I can make money from that, and they're happy to pay it...

Dave...

[shuggy]

wow. i thought it was 2 pac. well done

[75wagon]

The main problem with Lacquer is it doesn't stand up to the elements as well as 2 pak. So you have to keep it constantly polished and try to avoid as much weather as possible. OK for a hobby car, but not so good for a daily driver. But if you're prepared to put in the effort go for it.

wow. i thought it was 2 pac. well done

Thanks shuggy, It's all in how it cut back and buffed.
It's come up like glass, not peely and crappy looking like 2 pac.

Dave...

[bigbird]

The main problem with Lacquer is it doesn't stand up to the elements as well as 2 pak. So you have to keep it constantly polished and try to avoid as much weather as possible. OK for a hobby car, but not so good for a daily driver. But if you're prepared to put in the effort go for it.

wow. i thought it was 2 pac. well done

Thanks shuggy, It's all in how it cut back and buffed.
It's come up like glass, not peely and crappy looking like 2 pac.

Dave...

yeah daves car come up sweet


me and my bro-in-law painted my car in his shed with 2pac it got some bugs and hair in it and a bit of orange peel but it was a great finish

[75wagon]

me and my bro-in-law painted my car in his shed with 2pac it got some bugs and hair in it and a bit of orange peel but it was a great finish

Not saying 2 pac is a bad finish, just saying you'll be pretty hard pressed to get a finish anywhere near as good as you would with lacquer. But there is the problem with lacquer, it reallys on being cut back and buffed. So all the hard to get at spots wont be as shiny as the main car panels.

2 pac is a much harder wearing paint and much more durable. Also has a much more consistent shine as it is a gloss that is achieved off the gun, not off the buffer.

I don't spray 2 pac outside a spray booth because I don't have a spare $10000 for the fine.

Dave...

[amgis_obrut]

Anyone who thinks 10k for a paint job is over the top,

I gotta agree with you there some paint can be $1200 per litre


I painted the engine bay only in my transit and it nearly cost a grand just in product alone, if i had paid someone to do it i think it would be about $2500


I know a bloke thats spent about $70000 on body work and paint on his datto 1600

Most top 10 summernats cars have paint jobs starting at $50000

Some top 10 summernats car owners are full of shit as well.
My mates .69 Stang that was Mustang clubs gold award winner for 5 years was a $8000 all up bare metal,no bog mirror finish paint job,while a couple of my National Concourse winning classic paint jobs were done in less than 100 hours. When you take into consideration that paint rates range from $65 -$150 per hourincluding everything.

and i bet if you put your mates stang next to Fitzy's 1600 the stangs paint would look like Carol Yager's bum

No doubt it has brilliant paint but is that paint brilliant on every surface of the car and consistent in thickness with in a few micron

[pistorf]

and i bet if you put your mates stang next to Fitzy's 1600 the stangs paint would look like Carol Yager's bum

No doubt it has brilliant paint but is that paint brilliant on every surface of the car and consistent in thickness with in a few micron[/quote]

The 'stang is a national concourse winning car and yes,the paint finish on the inside of the panels is as good as the outside.
I am a painter and spent 15 years painting restored intage and classic cars,many that were concourse winning cars (Rolls Royce National concourse winners 1978-1986) so I do know to do a schmicko paint job .

[77lancer]

a good painter will get as good a job if not better with 2 pac as anyone can with acrylic and it will last alot longer and be easier to maintain.
the amount of peel you get depends on a range of things from thinning ratios to heat and air pressure.

[75wagon]

a good painter will get as good a job if not better with 2 pac as anyone can with acrylic and it will last alot longer and be easier to maintain.
the amount of peel you get depends on a range of things from thinning ratios to heat and air pressure.

That may be true, but I'm good enough to be able to spray my car myself, and the fact still remains that 2 Pac is illegal to spray outside a booth. I can spray 2 Pac and air dry enamel without any peel at all. But I don't want a fine, so that's why I do it with acrylic lacquer.

Dave...

[pistorf]

a good painter will get as good a job if not better with 2 pac as anyone can with acrylic and it will last alot longer and be easier to maintain.
the amount of peel you get depends on a range of things from thinning ratios to heat and air pressure.

That may be true, but I'm good enough to be able to spray my car myself, and the fact still remains that 2 Pac is illegal to spray outside a booth. I can spray 2 Pac and air dry enamel without any peel at all. But I don't want a fine, so that's why I do it with acrylic lacquer.

Dave...

Dave
I have been a painter for the past 35 years and am able to do an excellent job in both 2 Pack and acrylic. To be totally honest,I prefer Acrylic over 2 Pack any day. I am currently respraying my mothers VZ Calais in acrylic .
My mates XB Coupe still looks as good as it did when I painted it in acrylic 9 years ago.
It has a lot to do with the quality of the materials that you use.I used Spies Hecker Acrylic on it

[77lancer]

pistorf do you think your love of acrylic is biased to your obvious experience and long time use of it? what brand of 2 pac do you use?

another option is water based paint. not sure on legal requirements to spray but it is supposed to be better for the environment and as good as 2 pac. its used all everywhere in europe.

[pistorf]

I have been using 2pack since the early 1980s and have used most brands. One of the best to use <I found was actually one of the cheaper brands,Protec. Most of my 2Pack usage was euther Spies Hecker and Standox. I am not really biased towards Acryilic as I have won concourses with both.
I did a TA23 celica (HYPO4) for a mate of mine in acrylic in 1988 and it went on to win Top Custom paint in every show it was entered in for 5 or6 years. All I ever did to it in that time was spray it with wax and grease remover to remove the polish build up and give it a quick hand polish with Brasso and run a new lambs wool pad over it dry.
My XD ESP was done in acrylic in 1990 after some asshole keyed it,and it is still shiny(apart from where its present owner has done some rough rust repairs.. My origional comment was not about my bias (or lack of) toward lacquer,but about the cost of paint jobs.

[75wagon]

I did a TA23 celica (HYPO4)

I remember that car, it was at the same show as my Lancer hatch in 1993, and he worked for the Railways and so did I, that's how I knew him. Although I don't recall his name. I sure he worked at Wyong Railway Station.

Dave...

[amgis_obrut]

I have been using 2pack since the early 1980s and have used most brands. One of the best to use <I found was actually one of the cheaper brands,Protec. Most of my 2Pack usage was euther Spies Hecker and Standox. I am not really biased towards Acryilic as I have won concourses with both.
I did a TA23 celica (HYPO4) for a mate of mine in acrylic in 1988 and it went on to win Top Custom paint in every show it was entered in for 5 or6 years. All I ever did to it in that time was spray it with wax and grease remover to remove the polish build up and give it a quick hand polish with Brasso and run a new lambs wool pad over it dry.
My XD ESP was done in acrylic in 1990 after some asshole keyed it,and it is still shiny(apart from where its present owner has done some rough rust repairs.. My origional comment was not about my bias (or lack of) toward lacquer,but about the cost of paint jobs.

Ever seen Rod Hadfeilds Final Objective? that car took 9 months to paint !!

Just say the painter spent 8 hours a day on that car (could be more or less) thats 2160 hours @ $65 hour = $140400

though there is alot of that car and and every inch is extremely detailed and has something like 7000 air brushed rivets covering the car, imagine the time masking them up

[pistorf]

amgis_obrut,all I can say is that you are an absolute tosser. have you ever worked in a paint shop? have you ever done any spraypainting professionally? Have you ever had any formal training?
Mate,my mothers Commodore has taken me 6 months to paint so far and it is still in primer.Why.because I just don't have the time to get in and finish it!
I don't want to get into arguments with total wankers about a subject that they know absolutely JACK SHIT about.

[Torana68]

[quote="GC75"]Anyone here actually do paint work? would be good to set up a service maybe for members here? im sure people would be willing to pay a decent amount and supply the equipment needed.

anyone thinking of that needs to consider the EPA, they WILL visit you and start asking questions, the fines are large, your not supposed to do full resprays at home. I wouldnt waste my time as has been said its not a profitable thing to do unless you charge real money....

10 Grand for doing a paint job is bullshit, i find it silly how painters/panel beaters charge...

you wont get one done near me for much less, its what it costs, it takes a LONG time to do it even close to properly. No one paints a car in a week (no one is going to allocate the staff to your car for a week for 2k) its not just wages either ... it all adds up. IF your car is PERFECT, not a mark or scratch, no flaking or crpws feet, spotlessly clean, completly stripped to the satisfaction of the painter (which should mean windows out doors part strilpped etc) you MIGHT get it done in the same colour for $3-4K ,not in the boot or engine bay , a quick squirt behind the doors, your dreaming if you think youll get anything but crap for less. The shop owner will either laugh at you and point you in the direction of the door or spray it in enamel without removing anything (masking tape) ... ok for speedway if thats the quality your after.

P.S thats in 2K , to do it in acrylic youll be paying for the painter to buff for half a day as well, most shops wont do it now anyway as its not as profitable or quick as 2 K , if you want glassy 2K is what you want but again your paying for a painter to buff for probably a day... as I said it all costs and adds up

[amgis_obrut]

Mate i cant even use a pressure pak though i know a bloke that can


Your argument with me is about the cost of summernats top 10 (elite) paint jobs

If you think you can get an elite winning paint job including steel work for under $10k and done in a total time of 100 hours, you my ignorant friend are in fact the tosser here

Isn't a concourse event about presenting a car in its close to factory state trying to keep it as unmodified as possible ?

We had a datto 1600 that was a multi award winner back in the early 90's even got a few top paint awards at the hot 4's jamboree's and was featured in multiple modified car mags like hot 4's fast 4's and Street machine

Its paint/body was great (cost 12K) but its nothing by todays standards

How many hours do you think it takes to get a floor pan smooth enough to match the top of the car or to smooth out an engine block or a gear box with a die grinder and hand rubbing it so its like a freshly prepped panel

I guess people just pay mega $$$ because they want to \


P.s. How much would you charge to paint the engine bay in my transit and how long would it take you?