Discussion topic... Multiple ownership

[75wagon]

I posted a comment today about my theories about multiple ownership. A member (who shall remain nameless unless they state otherwise) has asked if I could start a separate topic so this can be discussed.

The topic where the comment was posted Re: Chrysler Lancer LA 2 door 1975 http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=5179
The comment:

I'm not against members buying up everything that becomes available, but there is a side effect that must be considered.

The theory I have for those who buy up multiples (more then 2), is that for these cars to become more sort after and increase in value is for more people to own them. If certain people buy up every example, then they are actually decreasing the number of people owning them, and thus decreasing their value (it's just a theory?).
The best way to increase value is to make the best example of whatever you have and encourage others to do the same. That way (if the encouragement works), lots of people will be restoring them. Then there are more people looking for the same number of parts and cars.Thus driving part and car prices up.
It's a simple theory called supply and demand.

And Paul, Good luck with the sale, it looks like a great example for someone looking for a project to restore.

Dave...

This part in particular
"The theory I have for those who buy up multiples (more then 2), is that for these cars to become more sort after and increase in value is for more people to own them. If certain people buy up every example, then they are actually decreasing the number of people owning them, and thus decreasing their value (it's just a theory?)."

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[A112H]

I mostly agree. It would be good to see finacial appreciation of Galants and Lancers, I think Sigma's day will come but as they are newer it is maybe 15 years away yet.
The thing that scares me is it is hard enough now trying to find parts, if they go the same way as the 1600's and stuff then it will still be hard to get parts but they will be bloody expensive too, lol.
As soon as the Galant is finished I will be on the lookout for one for spares or atleast start hording parts.
I have spotted two mustard coloured GC wagons I have my eye on, just need to find the owner. I am thinking one for a daily and one for spares.

[Shifta]

Ha ha, thanks Dave for the new topic! I thought your post was very comment worthy but I hate it when a For Sale thread gets hijacked so I didn't want to post there . It's a very interesting subject. Out of all my mates, I'm the only one that is in to my Mitsubishis so it makes it easier for me to find parts and cars in my circle of friends. Most of my mates are into Rotaries and to tell you the truth, swap meets and other opportunities can get messy because of the ridiculous prices that Mazda bits get these days. Its because the cars and parts are so valuable now, people hoard them like crazy and basically fight over anything they can get. So how does that relate to Mitsubishis you may ask! Well for whatever reason Mitsi stuff hasn't quite got there yet but the topic at hand is what people think about peeps collecting ( hoarding ) anything Mitsi they can get their hands on so here's my thoughts...

On the surface I think grabbing too many is a bit selfish and for the good of our Mitsi community we should to help other enthusiasts obtain a good car by not buying every example we come across. Dave's comments make sense - the more people that own the cars the better it is and if you have more than one ( I had 4 60's Colts at one point last year ), you stretch yourself thin and can't have a great example of any of them. I can relate to this as even now, I have 2 running Colts and a Sigma Turbo, and none of them are restored or show car worthy. Here's the twist though. I'd like to think I help the Mitsi community via the Old Colts in Oz website and by tracking down parts and info on 60's Colts and passing on the info to anyone that needs it. My website ( shameless plug : http://www.oldcolts.com.au ) makes no money and I sold two Colts last year and pretty much broke even on both. When I bought them it was kinda like saving them from the scrap heap. One car went to a fellow Jap car enthusiast in Adelaide, the other to a fan in NZ. So I guess a persons situation and motives would need to be looked at before judgement is made.

The second point I'll raise is regarding logistics. If you are going to pick up a 2nd, 3rd, 4th car you don't really need, can you store it somewhere to help preserve it? What's the point in picking up a bargain, mint 70's Galant before the next bloke, only to let it sit in long grass in crap weather for a couple of years and degrade? Someone else might buy it and treat it like gold - that would be better for our car community! I'm getting on in life ( a touch over 30ish ) and over the past 10 years I saved a lot of cash to try and build a biggish shed so I could store my toys. I really wish I could have put the money into a car that would get respect and appreciation but instead I now have a place to store several original cars in order to ensure they will still be running when i pass them on to my grandkids ( if that ever happens lol ). So I'm not saying I've done the right thing, but if I stumbled upon a rare mitis tomorrow, I prob would snap it up because I know it will be treated the way it deserves

So to shut this rant down and get to the point. I think it's case by case basis. If you love your Mitisis, contribute to our community overall somehow, and can assist in preserving as many of these wonderful cars as possible, buy as many as you want

[EVL076]

whats wrong with collecting spares? as stated, parts are hard enough to come by now

does it really matter if i own 1 galant or 55 galants?
and for the value to drop, i gotta ask, what do you ppl think they are actually worth?

they are worth no where near the drug money that ppl are trying to sell them for
and also not worth the drug money that some ppl are paying for them

example: when i posted i was after a GC/GD for daily duties
shuggy offered me the GD sports pack he has just stripped.. (was still in 1 bit when offered to me)
the said price was $3,500, which i had no intention of even considering

this is what he told me he paid for it, and look at it, its in bad shape, its pretty fucked
and its gonna be a long road to fix it - but i wish him well, and im sure it will be mint as, one day

our cars are worth nothing, lets face it
the select few who have rare stuff - like GTO's and GB coupes and the mega rare FTO
well yeah, they are gonna get a lot better coin for their cars

mine is insured for 8k, and who in this world is gonna pay 8k for a GD Galant
i would be lucky if i pulled 4k for it

take these examples:

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/res ... ome&Nne=15

they are gonna be for sale for a long long time
18k would buy so much more car, that has a resale value that is still respectable
dont get me wrong, its a sweet as galant, and worth every penny
but who is gonna pay that?
GC Galant vs R32 GTR for the same price... i take the GTR

flame away

[Shifta]

No flaming from me, I'm genuinely interested in what others think . Regarding 55 Galants though, if half of them were good cars and you didn't have anywhere to put them so they sat out in the rain rusting away with no real purpose other than having 55 Galants, that would kinda suck...!

And kinda off topic, ignoring the $18k over-priced tag, how tough is that Galant!

[Superscan811]

A lot of the parts cars I buy were on their way to the crusher.

On EBAY, I usually only bid the lowest amount. If someone else wants/needs it, they will bid higher, if not, I get another piece for my hoard.

I currently have 6 scorpions and parts from another 4 that were on their way to the crusher because of the rust.
If I hadn't bought the rusty scorps, the parts I collected would have been destroyed.
I'm a hoarder but because these cars currently aren't considered "collectibles", people would rather get a few hundred dollars from the scrappy rather than re-advertise on the chance they may get a few more dollars.

To sum up my thoughts:
1. If you don't need it, bid low.
2. If you need it, bid higher.
3. If you don't have the money, SAVE then bid.

I have bought a truck load of cheap parts, and continue to do so, because I bid low when I don't need the parts.

If you wait till you need them, you will pay more, BUT, your wife/partner won't get the shits with you because of all the spare parts lying around the place.

Cheers.

[woops]

I would agree that the best way to increase the prices is to have a few really good examples in car shows and magazines to bring up the street cred value. Just take a look at the rx3, rx2 and r100. The rx4 is is the odd one out from the mazda group as very few people seem to want them at all. I personally don't see a huge difference between the rx3 and the rx4 except for the stret cred which has been built up by the many drag cars and street weapons. Even so the rx3's command prices 3 to 4 times the value of the rx4's. You just have to take a look at the increase of values which datsuns have experienced over the past couple of years. Before they had very little desirability but now their value have started to skyrocket.

I must admit that I am kinda guilty of buying a good bargain car with a GC coupe awaiting restoration and a GB sedan in the backyard as a spare parts car for my GB daily driver. I've been to a couple car shows and the biggest problem i've found with the older mitsubishi's is that there is a very small devoted following. I don't know if thats due to having very few mitsubishi's left or if the majority of people who do own them have no real respect for them. The last all Jap car show I was in had 4 old school mitsubishi's there out of about a hundred other old school jap cars. There seemed to a lot of corolla's, datsuns and mazda's there but very few mitsy's. Still the biggest problem is going to be the problem that there are so mitsubishi's left around the country anymore that developing a large following will be difficult.

I think there are two main groups of people who drive up the vehicle values. The modifyers and the restorers. The restorers are typically the older people who have fond memories of the vehicles from their youths and the modifyers who look for a car with street cred and can be made fast. Lets face it, the galants in their time weren't that sporty when compared to the compared to the compeditors although neither were the datsun 180b's either. I think the prices for galants are going to continue increasing in the future as they have for them in the past few years but only if the desirability continues at the rate which it has done recently.

Does anyone have original vehicle sales figures from the 70's era at all to be able to compare how our mitsubishi sales compare to the other equivalent vehicles to see what kind of percentage of those are still left?

[Shifta]

Great replies guys - this is the kinda discussion I was hoping for . Some good points above. I think I have an illness - before I bought my first Sigma Turbo when I was 19, I almost bought an RX5 and I still to this day have a soft spot for them - Mazda owners hate them!

[A112H]

Yeah, the RX5/121 is not a very popular car, I dint mind them really.
After chatting to my Dad (he rallied back in the day) and he reckons the Galant and Lancers were pretty strong and every bit as quick as a Datsun 1600 but it was the suspension that let them down.
I think the big problem with colectability status and value is the Magna's fault and even the Sigma a bit, so many people had problems with them new and I remember as a kid, if there was a car in traffic blowing smoke Dad would say "must be a Mitsubishi up there"
Clearly the imports have helped perk up the local market, all the cool Skylines have pushed the value of 240k's and R31 up. And I think that drifting has raiser the price of old Toyota's, it wasn't that long ago that Sprinters, T18's and TE70 Corolla's were no more than $500 bombs.
I think if we keep at it, raise the 70's Mitsu bar and public perception our cars will get the respect they deserve.

[PROSSER]

galant_gto i know what your saying about them braking down but whenever i drove my sigma around i had more comments about it then when i used to drive around in my gemini (yes shame i had one lol) because more people had many fond memories of growing up with a sigma, galant or magna yes thats probably because they were mass produced and cheaper so many people had them but I think in the next few years thats where the big hook will be.

I know dave works tirelessly to bring us cruises but if we had better advertisement not just for guys in the forum to catch up but if we try and jump on the band wagon and place notices in other forums (Because i know for sure alot of you are on other forums) that we are having a cruise/event and maybe have joint cruises rather then we all sit back and say we want our cars to be noticed and there values rise. just a point to put across i know statements will be raised saying not everyone is able to make it for many different reasons but if we atleast make a more cognisance effort together we can get the ball rolling.

[75wagon]

whats wrong with collecting spares? as stated, parts are hard enough to come by now

does it really matter if i own 1 galant or 55 galants?

Nothing wrong with it? I think collecting parts is a sensible idea. I also think buying up cars that are substandard or only parts worthy is a good idea too. Anything saved from the crusher is good. I have done just that myself. I stripped a car that was beyond repair. The drivetrain was on sold to someone who will use it and I have stripped out any other usable part. The body is now cut up and sitting in my trailer awaiting the scrap metal yard.

The second point I'll raise is regarding logistics. If you are going to pick up a 2nd, 3rd, 4th car you don't really need, can you store it somewhere to help preserve it? What's the point in picking up a bargain, mint 70's Galant before the next bloke, only to let it sit in long grass in crap weather for a couple of years and degrade? Someone else might buy it and treat it like gold - that would be better for our car community!

I agree with this 100%

I can't see the point in discussing valuations. What happens happens. It's never been about the value for me. I did up my wagon because I wanted to.

I get a lot of satisfaction out of what I do with my old cars, and also seeing what others do with theirs. For me the cruises and these types of websites/forums are for me about trying to share that with others who feel the same way. This forum makes it a lot easier to buy, sell and swap things, so it has made life a lot easier owning one of these cars. Before I found this site I was seriously thinking about getting rid of my car before I couldn't get parts for it anymore. That is part of the reason why I encourage more people to join this site.

BTW: in my first comment

The theory I have for those who buy up multiples (more then 2)

I meant 2 prime examples, not parts cars or the parts themselves.

[amgis_obrut]

they are worth no where near the drug money that ppl are trying to sell them for
and also not worth the drug money that some ppl are paying for them

thats kind of a contradiction there and you also answered your own question about "What are they worth"


Something is worth as much as what another is willing to pay, some people are happy to pay a high price to get what they want

[A112H]

I can't see the point in discussing valuations. What happens happens. It's never been about the value for me. I did up my wagon because I wanted to.

When talking 'value' in no way am meaning I want my car to be worth $10,000. I am using value as a term of respect. Value will come to our vehicles naturaly following respect.
A front bumper is worth no more or less on a GC than a 240K, but I bet you could get $250 for a mint 240 bumper and about $50 for a GC one.
My point is that with a high level of respect and desire comes a price. I think it is prudent to collect multipule of any 'hard to get' parts at the moment before these prices jump, and they will.
My hardtop has always been my 'for ever car' I searched for it for a long time and have no intention of selling it. But in 20 years time I dont want to be paying $1500 for a grill when I can stash one away now.

[PROSSER]

they are worth no where near the drug money that ppl are trying to sell them for
and also not worth the drug money that some ppl are paying for them

thats kind of a contradiction there and you also answered your own question about "What are they worth"


Something is worth as much as what another is willing to pay, some people are happy to pay a high price to get what they want

+1

[75wagon]

There is a thought that if you start asking more for these cars the prices might go up. Starion boys have cottoned on to this idea.

Oh oh, I seem to remember an old discussion that broached this topic, about members here should mark up there prices and forcing others to pay higher prices. It ended badly.

I can't see the point in discussing valuations. What happens happens. It's never been about the value for me. I did up my wagon because I wanted to.

When talking 'value' in no way am meaning I want my car to be worth $10,000. I am using value as a term of respect. Value will come to our vehicles naturaly following respect.
A front bumper is worth no more or less on a GC than a 240K, but I bet you could get $250 for a mint 240 bumper and about $50 for a GC one.
My point is that with a high level of respect and desire comes a price. I think it is prudent to collect multipule of any 'hard to get' parts at the moment before these prices jump, and they will.
My hardtop has always been my 'for ever car' I searched for it for a long time and have no intention of selling it. But in 20 years time I dont want to be paying $1500 for a grill when I can stash one away now.

I know what you are saying, and I agree with it. I don't have a problem with hoarding parts, I do it, hell I think just about everyone does it. If I see someone that really needs a part I am prepared to part with it, but they have to need it. And doing burnouts and blowing up your diff (as one member did a while back), is not a reason for me to want to part with any I have (because I know what will happen to any that I sell them). They are too hard to come by to sell them to fools who don't respect them.

Just a gentle reminder
Lets not forget this discussion is about multiple ownership not valuations. Talking about valuations is a can of worms that I had no intention of opening up.

Dave...

[PROSSER]

sure with the idea of having multiple galants sigmas or lancers are fine but a point ive noticed is that most are in agreeance.
Rather then getting a few decent ones then letting the ones you arent driving/restoring/improving performance and they are just sitting there playing the waiting game with the elements.
When you could always offer them up for an eager buying to play the restoration game aswell but if there already just rust buckets and all the plans are for them to strip sure buy them up so we can have more spares for years to come.

[karl_2ltgc]

Bleh, old Mistubishis are not worth alot of money. Infact you will find over the coming years prices will likely remain stable. New cars are cheaper and more available than ever before, less and less mechanics are capable of fixing old cars and as parts become harder to source less people will choose to restore/keep on the road.
You want to make money, try getting a better job or investing in some assets that acually increase in value with inflation.

/End thread

[PROSSER]

for most its not for money more for the love of their car

[stealth]

well guilty as charged
i will buy any and every la 2 door that i can get my hands on (at the right price ,im not going to pay through the nose but you know what i mean ) and why not ? if you can afford it and have the room to store and or save/resto why the hell not .
from what i have seen over the last 20 years is a lot of good early mitsi's get bought and sold ,each time in worst condition that the last time ! so no-one really looking after them !
as to people like mr aerospace who complains that there are no good cars left to buy but wont pay the money thats being asked ,so like i say to most people in this situation
if you see the part/car that you WANT buy it for the price thats asked or someone else will
money talks and bullshit walks!
cheers stealth

[75wagon]

well guilty as charged

No one is pointing fingers.
Just thought it was an interesting topic to discuss.

You are right stealth about pay the price asked or someone else will. Sometimes worrying about if the price is too high doesn't matter, because it's too late and it's already sold. I've been there. Then realised later the price wasn't too high after all.

[Shifta]

if you can afford it and have the room to store and or save/resto why the hell not .

Agree 100%! Even the complete shitboxes I have bought over the years have left my place with several hours TLC and their stay at my place is usually warm and dry. My daily driver 95 commodore hates it as it gets shuffled out in the weather .

Just to clarify my earlier posts, parts cars are completely different. I have a 69 Colt sitting out the back right now rusting away. Before I bought it, it sat in Salisbury rusting away under a tree for 15 years. I bought it for the hubcaps and figured I'd rather it be an ornament in my backyard rather than crushed. I'm still scared to open the doors as the would be countless spiders in there .

[amgis_obrut]

Prices of our cars will go up, small rwd cars are getting thin on the ground and most of the popular ones (Datto 1200 1600 mazda's) etc are just about gone so galants and lancers will start to look like viable options for those wanting to fit sr's, rotaries and evo engines to a light rwd car

Sigmas are slightly bigger and heavier (kinda torana cortina league) and are good candidates for larger V6 and up to 5.7l V8 engines, great to fit injected windsors and gen 3 engines into, theres still quite a few Sigmas around

I hear that someone is planning a Gen3 > GH Sigma swap

the more we get out and show our cars to the world and how they can be modified the more people they will attract

[astronturbo77]

I'm with stealth's comment, MONEY TALKS, BULLSHIT WALKS. everyone just get over it, if you have the cash and want the car then buy it!

[tubby]

back to the topic at hand, yes I think If you have the space to store the cars out of the elements then buy them all. as long as you are willing to let them go when someone asks to buy it. lets face it you would be doing this community a service, If you are willing to sell the cars you have stockpiled the issue of availability affecting price is irrelevant.
But I thinks as has been said getting your cars finished and out on the road for people to see them, car shows, exposure that kind of stuff will drive up prices and respect more than rarity. If people don't want your car rarity is irrelevant as is putting the price up. there are a lot of members on this site with amazing cars who only ever take them out once a month then get upset 'cos they are not worth anything. as for the earlier comments on the "unreliable mitsubishi stigma" I think perhaps it may be the opposite. I often see old mitsis' about and its usually older people driving them, because they bought them thirty years ago and have never had a problem and as such haven't upgraded to a newer car, therefore when people see them they make the association of old persons bus = not cool.

[shuggy]

sorry but has to be said. a car is only as valuable as what someone is willing to pay for it. my GD is going to worth a hell of a lot more to me than what i could ever sell it for. if i wanted to buy a car to build and sell i would have bought something worth something. but i bought it coz i love galants - everything about them - and i want to have a mint condition early galant drive me to the shops and back for the next 20 years.
this means spending whatever and buying however many parts cars to fulfil my desire of this. i dont care about value. i just want my perfect car

end rant

[DVSGAL]

The value of these cars have gone up, my galant was insured for $5000 lastyear, I got my new papers today and she is now at $5500. I know its only $500 difference but its better then going down!
And I am always collecting spares, because I know there will be a dark day for DVS and she will need spares to keep her alive, finding parts is getting hard now, and if gillard starts flattening these cars then parts will be a needle in a haystack.

[GB_BB4C]

I have my collection of cars coz i want them, not to drive up prices or anything like that. Some of them are modified and others are there for restoration. They aren't sitting in a paddock rusting away they are in a shed and a couple of them i have bought from wreckers. Some of them i think i may have paid too much for, but in the end i wanted it and i have to live with that. I have also scrapped a few due to rust/damaged but have stripped them of parts and have sold some of them on to other people. I have had some of them in car shows, and take them on cruises (not just sigma-galant cruises). I have receipts for the cars and parts and i know that i am never going to get anywhere near what i have spent on them back. It is not about the money for me but the enjoyment of accomplishing something and being able to say 'i did that'. It is also something that me and a few mates can get together and work on.

[shuggy]

+1

[A112H]

+2

[metaldrift]