turbo carb setup?

[SpEc_OpS]

Hi all jus a quick qs im wanting info on turbo carb setups plan on sticking a turbo in my scorpion this weekend i have a general idea wat i wanna do i jus want a heads up if its gonna work or not lol

so im gonna go blow thru ill start at the pod filter n explain my plan of atack
pod into carby into turbo thru intercooler into motor that sound right?

im jus worried bout fuel passing thru the intercooler is it safe?

also if any has sum pics plz post them up id luv to see n get sum ideas

[Astron Boy]

Umm.
If you mean suck through, which is carb before turbo, then I dont believe you can do an intercooler, which means max boost you can safely do is around 10psi.

If you go blow through, so turbo before carby, then you can do an IC, ma boost 15psi, or so, but you'd need to really fiddle with the carb, and the carb has to be sealed so it won't leak boost and cause pressurisation with the fuel.

I hope that's correct, did research like 3yrs ago when my wagon was carby.
May have my terminology switch around though... sorry.

[tandanus]

Yeah, running an intercooler on a draw through set up is dangerous - youve got this fuel/air mix in the intercooler and as it cools the fuel condenses and well you can see where thats going..... And for the same reason you cant use a blow-off valve because you'll be venting fuel/air mix to the atmosphere. Either is a recipe for KABOOM. If you want to go draw through, check out water injection.
T.

[SpEc_OpS]

Thnx for the reply guys

after a chat with rxscorp ive decided to go blow thru but still more qs
so its safe to run a cooler wat about a bov? i was planning on using a t3/t4 turbo jus a cheapo to see how it handles that kinda power (is this to big?)

also any ideas on wat carby i shuld get ive read the xf falcons good but would that suit this kinda setup? wat mods r required to fit the falcon 1 will there be an issue with it runnin lean when boost comes on?

RPW are telling me turbo carb is a good way to blow the motor honestly how bad could it be if im running stock boost? ive just inquired about a stage 1 cam from them aswell mite leave that till down the track tho and im gonna remove the balance shaft aswell.

if any1 could help me via a phone call id much prefer it and if moneys tight just txt me or call me n ill call u back and spend my money on the call help would be much appreciated guys and if ur information is worth money ill pay for it im really keen on getting this project started cant wait to be cruising around sydney in my sxc scorp

Adam on (number removed)

PS if any1 wants to lend a helping hand or has a garage they wanna let me use for sum cash/beers thrown there way let me know i got a mate who does everything from spray jobs to converting 2wd n/t skylines into awd+t in his garage whos gonna help me but hes a removalist n works anywhere from 75 -115 hrs p/w atm hes doin 105 so its slowing my project down

[Astron Boy]

I spoke to Dave also when researching about turbo carby
His main point is the tuning factor, which to a point is true.
It is a lot more mucking around for something EFI makes quick work of.
But, it can be done.

When I was looking at it, I was going for a 48 weber due to the amount of fuel required.
The XF would be right on the border or perfect.... so long as you can get a perfect tune.
The 48 had more scope.
The one thing to take on board is sealing the carby.
If that is not done properly, then yes, big ba-da-boom.

another way around it would be to adapt a cordia system, which is like an electric carby.
just adapt the TBI setup to the fuel chamber, and install the fuel management... but that's also a real fiddly job.

Unfortunately that's the limit of my knowledge, I later gave up and put in a turbo motor with custom efi.

[SpEc_OpS]

Ok here are my options guys

Option 1 (most expensive highly recomended)
twin weber intake manifold matched with twin weber throttle bodies each throttle body has 2 ports that each have a single injector going into them make a custom plenum chamber everything will b managed by a ems stinger 4 ecu which is a standalone ecu so i wont need all the efi gear controlling everything from fuel to my shift light (theres even dual rpm settings eg hard n soft and anti lag + more) ebay front mount and he suggests using the lowest spec gt28rs (disco potato)

Option 2 (budget option basically number 1 without brand name goodies)
magna intake and throttle body with magna coolant temperature sensor and air sensor matched to ems ecu ebay intercooler and a turbo + all necessary piping

Option 3 (Cheap proper Carby setup)
Ok turn exhaust manifold round mount turbo run piping into a custom plenum chamber housing twin weber dcoe45 with weber manifold or run it via intercooler with turbo back exhaust

Option 4 my original idea (only slightly dodgy )
Turn exhaust manifold around mount turbo to it via a flange run intake pipe directly into carby from the turbo dump pipe will act as exhaust running all the way back to the rear (proper turbo back exhaust )

Im prbly goin with option 2 so i can spend more money on other things

PS Every1 Joe at Hi Comp Performance was very very helpful even tho i was bein a tool n thought i knew wat i was goin on about. So definately give him a call seems like he really knows wat hes goin on about guys and is extremely happy to help he also specialises in weber carbies.

Hi-Comp Performance Engines & Tuning
2/12 Eddie Rd Minchinbury 2770
(02)9677-0505

[Sigmaproject]

Well if you are going to get this done this weekend, you better get cracking ;)

[cheaterparts]

another way around it would be to adapt a cordia system, which is like an electric carby.
just adapt the TBI setup to the fuel chamber, and install the fuel management... but that's also a real fiddly job.

no you wouldn't even run this system on a cordia unless you had to

Ok here are my options guys

Option 1 (most expensive highly recomended)
twin weber intake manifold matched with twin weber throttle bodies each throttle body has 2 ports that each have a single injector going into them make a custom plenum chamber everything will b managed by a ems stinger 4 ecu which is a standalone ecu so i wont need all the efi gear controlling everything from fuel to my shift light (theres even dual rpm settings eg hard n soft and anti lag + more) ebay front mount and he suggests using the lowest spec gt28rs (disco potato)

Option 2 (budget option basically number 1 without brand name goodies)
magna intake and throttle body with magna coolant temperature sensor and air sensor matched to ems ecu ebay intercooler and a turbo + all necessary piping

option 1 is a have good idea but you would need to use quite small TBs and isn't realy the way to go

option 2 is the way to go - a modified magna manifold is simple it fits and it will work
it has been used many times

and for the disco spud they spool up pretty quick on a 2Lt I think you would need to run the .86 ex housing on a 2.6

[astronturbo77]

hey mate, i have done this conversion with a xf weber. go to old site and look up 'blow thru carb efi fuel pump post'. iM QUITE HAPPY TO HELP OUT WITH INFO IF UR INTERESTED, whoa that wasnt supposed to be caps lol. any way mate the only thing i can say is blow through is VERY very involved but can work well. my advise is go with a suck trough setup as these are easy to gt right or the best bet is efi.
cheers

[Astron Boy]

another way around it would be to adapt a cordia system, which is like an electric carby.
just adapt the TBI setup to the fuel chamber, and install the fuel management... but that's also a real fiddly job.

no you wouldn't even run this system on a cordia unless you had to

I meant the factory setup.

Spec, with what you have in mind, you may as well use magna parts and do a hybrid, the ems can do the control for all 4 injectors, all you need is air temp sensor, water temp, digital dizzy, ignitor.
That's how my wagon runs.

By the way

Option 5:
find a turbo sigmas setup and whack it on ;), not the easiest option though.

[Sigmaproject]

Now I am not trying to be a smart ass oops

But the reason that a blow off valve will not work on a suck-through is because there is no pressure to vent during gearchanges. There is vacuum from the closed butterfly to the cylinders, and the turbo is in the middle of the two. And the vacuum is instantaneous. As soon as you lift the throttle for a gear change, you immediately have around 25" vacuum.
So with the turbine spinning in a vacuum, you would think that it probably doesnt loose much momentum during gearchanges. ;)

[Astron Boy]

Not to mentioning you're spraying fuel through the bov if it even were possible.

[SpEc_OpS]

Option 5:
find a turbo sigmas setup and whack it on ;), not the easiest option though.

LOL well im not even gonna bother tryin to find 1 i mean seriously of the 500 out there wats the chances ill find 1 bein wrecked with everything i need?

I do however need a jap 5 speed planning on using the h/d exedy clutch as ive had good experience with excedy

or do u guys think ill get away with jus a normal 5 speed with the h/d excedy im guessing ill b makin anywhere from 150 - 200 kws at the wheels if everything goes to plan

[81GL]

or do u guys think ill get away with jus a normal 5 speed with the h/d excedy

If your referring to the borgwaner 5 spd? i wouldn't even use one as a paper weight... Even if you did use one as a paper weight, it would probably still find some way to fail as that too

[SpEc_OpS]

lol point taken i thought the jap spec gearboxes were rare but apparently there in most scorpions/sigmas so im cheering

[Sigmaproject]

Dont cheeer just yet. ;)
The Jap boxes are 25 years old and probably in need of a rebuild.

[SpEc_OpS]

Dont cheeer just yet. ;)
The Jap boxes are 25 years old and probably in need of a rebuild.

Haha i have a drive it till it breaks theory when it comes to gearbox/diff so once it shits itself ill rebuild it prbly put dog box in it once it shits itself i kno a shop tahtl but the dog gears in my the jap 5 speeed for me

[SpEc_OpS]

Ok guys ive just gotten off the phone with sumidel a sydney based company specialising in su carbys they are telling me they can build a carby to suit either a draw thru or blow thru turbo setup brand new for $750. This includes jetting and pressurising off the carby to suit my application. They also do all kinds of rebuilding/rafabricating off su carbs including makin them look pretty ill leave there details at the bottom of the page for any1 interested.

There tryin to steer me down the blow thru setup due to issues with pooling of fuel in the turbo causing lag and various other problems with a draw thru which is fine by me i originally wanted to go blow thru so i culd have acooler ant wat now. I kno ive said im gonna go efi but im gonna give the carb setup a go till ive gotten all the efi gear and funds to do a rebuild so this is just sum temporary experimenting.

So looks like i will be going the turbo carb setup even if only temporary should be exciting to see how it all goes.

SUMidel
(02)97595598
4 Frazer St Lakemba
www.sumidel.com

[stealth]

what did thay recommend to you ?
a single 1/3/4 hif-44 ? for 750 WOW thats heaps
let us know will be interesting
cheers stealth

[Sigmaproject]

I would like to know how fuel would pool in a compressor housing with suck-thru.

Vacuum would suck evrything out, including the oil in the bearings if you have a dud (or wrong) seal.

[SpEc_OpS]

I would like to know how fuel would pool in a compressor housing with suck-thru.

Vacuum would suck evrything out, including the oil in the bearings if you have a dud (or wrong) seal.

well im jus goin by the "pros" advice but i aint gona listen to them on this 1 i want this car turbod by sunday so draw thru it is

Aparantly the trubl is on hot startup im thinkin of running a plum back blow of valve running into the exhaust so i get flame on gear changes and cos there no catalytic converter it safe so to speak ;)

[Astron Boy]

MMMM, how able minded are you?
I'm just curious if you think you could do this project yourself.
Main reason I say this is because, if your fuel system alone is going to cost that much money, and you dont even have a turbo yet, then it's going to be a pretty expensive mod, for not much gain.

However.

if you are not concerned with power, then go for it
Just keep in mind though for similar cost, you can do an EFI system with more scope and gain....

Food for thought.

[SpEc_OpS]

MMMM, how able minded are you?

Yes id does seem a tad silly but reasons for doing this are
ECU + install + tune= 2200
Turbo = $400
intercooler = $300
parts from tweakit including weber manifold, quad throttle bodies, all fueling requirements, etc = $2850
Engine rebuild = $1500
SU carb ready to go = $750
Piping/custom made manifold = $100

now if ur any good at maths ud figure out $1250 is alot cheaper than $7300 btw this is parts only cost all the work will be done by me apart from install/tune of ecu. Rego is due in 22 days so i need to be sensible with where my money goes and i really cbf doin efi jus yet i might aswell wait till im ready to turbo it. I also want it to handle and stop ALOT better b4 i go nuts on the motor so this is sumfin minor to keep my right foot happy till then But thnx for ur input and i do see where ur comin from

[Astron Boy]

Well, my turbo system which included the engine and manual gearbox was only 5K.
That included the turbo, fuel system, EMS, and a lot of custom parts.

As said, if you do this system yourself and find all 2nd hand good quality parts, you can have an awesome system at a 1/3 of the cost.

As said though, you need to be able minded.
And it depends what you are after.
I'm not saying don't go for the turbo carb, I think it's awesome, I love simplicity.
But if you are chasing HP, I do think it is kinda silly to be spending money on such a system.

Whichever route you go, keep us posted

[Sigmaproject]

Matey, I think the last thing you need to do is mod the engine. Something tells me that without a suspension and brake upgrade, you will not see many more Birthdays.
Even just a lowly suck thru can make the car bloody dangerous with standard suspension. And then there is the gearbox and diff. I have the feeling that the stock mitsu components would break your first drive with a turbo on-board.

So get the suspension and brakes up to scratch, which will take time and cash, and then worry about making it go faster. ;)

[DragonCypher]

Matey, I think the last thing you need to do is mod the engine. Something tells me that without a suspension and brake upgrade, you will not see many more Birthdays.
Even just a lowly suck thru can make the car bloody dangerous with standard suspension. And then there is the gearbox and diff. I have the feeling that the stock mitsu components would break your first drive with a turbo on-board.

So get the suspension and brakes up to scratch, which will take time and cash, and then worry about making it go faster. ;)

I certainly agree with the suspension and brakes part (moreso suspension as scorpions have damn good factory brakes)

But as long as you have a jap 5spd hooked up and any kind of scorpion diff it should hold pretty strong for what you're doing.
If memory serves me right the standard sigma turbo suckthrough setup was around 112kw, yes?
Definitely wouldn't break a scorpion

Although you might wanna lock that diff up

Code: Select all

http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=38

This dude in america has a good idea, but probably needs more business before he starts converting heaps.

[SpEc_OpS]

Matey, I think the last thing you need to do is mod the engine. Something tells me that without a suspension and brake upgrade, you will not see many more Birthdays.

i think your maternal instinct is kickin in sigmaproject

Thnx for the advice guys i do appreciate it i kno it is a bit stupid BUT i dnt care i jus really wanna do the turbo carb thing to prove alot of ppl rong and for the experience. Plus if im slowly building up parts and nothings changin with the car il lose interest. The turbo carb is to inspire me to go bigger and better i may not spend $750 on a carb but if i cant find 1 soon i might have to. If i was to do the efi conversion now id have to spend money on a magna ecu and getting it wired in which would be useless to me once i got the ems so money wasted there to . I am goin to minispool it and some good brake pads are on the way and i am going manual the gearbox is comin this weekend h/d clutch is ready n waiting for me to pick up jus tryin to find a damn flywheel. Any1 know where i can find a minispool?

[Frosty]

FORGET quad throttle bodies unless you're keeping it naturally aspirated, they're a waste of time and money on a turbo.

i just saved you $2000

[SpEc_OpS]

Good to see someone has some faith in me has any1 seen this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0sE-YMe ... re=channel

turbo using the original non turbo carby wonder if he made that manifold for it or jus bought it.

FORGET quad throttle bodies unless you're keeping it naturally aspirated, they're a waste of time and money on a turbo.

i just saved you $2000

Actually $1300 i was gonna go thru wat itd cost me to do it with the budget option (magna gear) itd save me some time wouldnt have to make a custom plenum to house the throttle bodies jus run a pipe straight into the single throttle body.

[SpEc_OpS]

lol he has a HKS death pod on his turbo in that vid

Is it actually called a death pod or are u callin it that for a reason?