aluminium panelling
-
- Sigma-Galant Police (Global Mod)
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:48 am
- Location: melbourne
aluminium panelling
Hi guys,
As you've probably read, i'm planning on building another GJ wagson with the GJ scorpion nose.
Since i wanna keep the original engine, it wont be terribly powerful....but unfortunately it will be a bit of a heavy weight....not good for performance. and since the car will be street registered.....it's illegal to run fiberglass panels......so my theory (and question) is.....can u make aliminium panels for weight reduction as opposed to the original steel ones???
how much lighter would an aluminium front guard be compared to the original???
As you've probably read, i'm planning on building another GJ wagson with the GJ scorpion nose.
Since i wanna keep the original engine, it wont be terribly powerful....but unfortunately it will be a bit of a heavy weight....not good for performance. and since the car will be street registered.....it's illegal to run fiberglass panels......so my theory (and question) is.....can u make aliminium panels for weight reduction as opposed to the original steel ones???
how much lighter would an aluminium front guard be compared to the original???
Built with pride, Driven in anger
Re: aluminium panelling
I guess you could but would cause major electrolysis much like if you were to use ally rivets in steel panels. If you do this you will need to attach sacrifice anodes i think
76' GD A57 rebuild Full Album - http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=1 ... 29ef74e1d8
-
- Sigma-Galant Police (Global Mod)
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:48 am
- Location: melbourne
Re: aluminium panelling
rivets??????
no no i mean (for now) have aluminium guards and bonnet so i can still use convential bolts
i just wanna try and lighten the bloody so its not such a fat-ass lol
no no i mean (for now) have aluminium guards and bonnet so i can still use convential bolts
i just wanna try and lighten the bloody so its not such a fat-ass lol
Built with pride, Driven in anger
-
- Sigma-Galant Police (Global Mod)
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:48 am
- Location: melbourne
Re: aluminium panelling
ahhh i get ya now...thanks for that
And for the record...no, im not made of money....if i were.....there'd be a sigma running in Top Doorslammer or at least in Comp Eliminator as a AA/G car!!!
And for the work, it just so happens that my step-brother earns a living in car restorations and spends his days building panels from scratch and my dad works in the plant and equipment industry which gives me access to use metal benders, rollers, presses, lathes, mills etc etc etc
It's really a classic case of not what u know, but who u know
my intention was to make an aluminium nose cone...with the bonnet and front guards as one piece...but wanted to use aluminium so it made he car lighter...but also it didn't take a shipping crane to pick up the entire nosecone
And for the record...no, im not made of money....if i were.....there'd be a sigma running in Top Doorslammer or at least in Comp Eliminator as a AA/G car!!!
And for the work, it just so happens that my step-brother earns a living in car restorations and spends his days building panels from scratch and my dad works in the plant and equipment industry which gives me access to use metal benders, rollers, presses, lathes, mills etc etc etc
It's really a classic case of not what u know, but who u know
my intention was to make an aluminium nose cone...with the bonnet and front guards as one piece...but wanted to use aluminium so it made he car lighter...but also it didn't take a shipping crane to pick up the entire nosecone
Built with pride, Driven in anger
Re: aluminium panelling
Body panels aren't all that heavy.
I'd spend the time and effort of engine mods to improve performance that way.
I think you'd find greater gains.
Plus, that's pretty hard work to get panels made from scratch. He must owe you some pretty big favours?
Dave...
I'd spend the time and effort of engine mods to improve performance that way.
I think you'd find greater gains.
Plus, that's pretty hard work to get panels made from scratch. He must owe you some pretty big favours?
Dave...
If you want any sigma-galant.com stickers, then look here for how to get them sigma-galant.com stickers
-
- Sigma-Galant Police (Global Mod)
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:48 am
- Location: melbourne
Re: aluminium panelling
no there's no favours owed...thats he job...it's what he's qualified to do
i'd love to get the panel gaps as minimal as possble and get the body 'image' as smooth as possible.....if that means i can get rid of panel gaps altogether at the front...then great....i've even thought about sealing up the tailgate and having it open like the old kingswoods to remove the panel gaps that go right around the back of the car so on the side view......u'd only have the panel gaps between the doors (which i plan to reduce anyway)
i'd love to get the panel gaps as minimal as possble and get the body 'image' as smooth as possible.....if that means i can get rid of panel gaps altogether at the front...then great....i've even thought about sealing up the tailgate and having it open like the old kingswoods to remove the panel gaps that go right around the back of the car so on the side view......u'd only have the panel gaps between the doors (which i plan to reduce anyway)
Built with pride, Driven in anger
-
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:03 pm
Re: aluminium panelling
I'm pretty sure if you were made of money sigma's would be the last car you'd drive.Scorpma82 wrote:ahhh i get ya now...thanks for that
And for the record...no, im not made of money....if i were.....there'd be a sigma running in Top Doorslammer or at least in Comp Eliminator as a AA/G car!!!
Re: aluminium panelling
Aluminium sheet metal is a nightmare. A gauge thin enough to make a replacement body panel will have literally no elastic integrity (if something knocks it, it will not be able to spring back into shape) Ask a panel beater who's (tried) fixed a bonnet on a Skyline... Take a page out of the HQ stock racer's book and grind the panel thickness down to reduce weight (they don't really do that, it would be cheating )
-
- Posts: 728
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:19 am
- Location: Central Coast
Re: aluminium panelling
I've heard stories of acid dipping panels as well in various forms of motorsport.
Re: aluminium panelling
just drill millions of holes in your car so it looks like mesh and wrap in wall paper
76' GD A57 rebuild Full Album - http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=1 ... 29ef74e1d8
-
- Sigma-Galant Police (Global Mod)
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:48 am
- Location: melbourne
Re: aluminium panelling
So how is it that motor companies (albeit..the most expensive ones) build the entire car out of it it??? do they have much thicker panelling?????? I would've thought that wouldn't be thecase as u can put a digeezer101 wrote:Aluminium sheet metal is a nightmare. A gauge thin enough to make a replacement body panel will have literally no elastic integrity (if something knocks it, it will not be able to spring back into shape) Ask a panel beater who's (tried) fixed a bonnet on a Skyline... Take a page out of the HQ stock racer's book and grind the panel thickness down to reduce weight (they don't really do that, it would be cheating )
nt in a coke can.....and press it out again and u can actually hear the can 'spring' back into shape???
Built with pride, Driven in anger
-
- Posts: 1689
- Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:12 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: aluminium panelling
They heat treat it to artifically "age harden" it, along with using specialized aluminium alloys you are not likely to find at Bunnings or your local sheetmetal shop.Scorpma82 wrote:So how is it that motor companies (albeit..the most expensive ones) build the entire car out of it it??? do they have much thicker panelling??????
Cheers.
Re: aluminium panelling
Hey Shuggy, that could be a good idea!just drill millions of holes in your car so it looks like mesh and wrap in wall paper
The density of steel is abt 7 to 8g/cc
aluminium is under 3g/cc
body filler is around 1g/cc (but would vary widely between products i imagine)
so if you drilled half your panels away and bogged them up you might get something like a 40% weight reduction in panel weight!
-
- Sigma-Galant Police (Global Mod)
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:48 am
- Location: melbourne
Re: aluminium panelling
I'd be tempted to not fill the holes and get personal plates "GRATER"
But honestly...wouldnt the panels lose all the strength???
And also, the car could look like a golf ball once its painted coz ur painting on a canstantly changing surface aren't u???
But honestly...wouldnt the panels lose all the strength???
And also, the car could look like a golf ball once its painted coz ur painting on a canstantly changing surface aren't u???
Built with pride, Driven in anger
-
- Sigma-Galant Police (Global Mod)
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:48 am
- Location: melbourne
Re: aluminium panelling
WTF!!!!!!!
Looks like an egg carton !!!! lol
Looks like an egg carton !!!! lol
Built with pride, Driven in anger
Re: aluminium panelling
And also, the car could look like a golf ball once its painted coz ur painting on a canstantly changing surface aren't u???
- amgis_obrut
- Posts: 1742
- Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:26 pm
- Location: Orient Point NSW
Re: aluminium panelling
imagine the engine you could build for the cost of the alloy panels and even the new alloy panels would be subject to ADR's
hint, have a read of NCOP regarding fibreglass panels, bonnets and guards can be approved but they need to have a minimum thickness of 3.5mm
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/ ... 011_v3.pdf
hint, have a read of NCOP regarding fibreglass panels, bonnets and guards can be approved but they need to have a minimum thickness of 3.5mm
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/ ... 011_v3.pdf
GH Sigma, 16" Mesh wheels, sports steering wheel and a V8 exhaust
Re: aluminium panelling
Scorpma82 wrote:I'd be tempted to not fill the holes and get personal plates "GRATER"
'82 GJ GSR Silver (family heirloom):)
Re: aluminium panelling
CX 500 meets Mad Max. Ugh! At least the guy who owns this will never be able to reproduce...
Re: aluminium panelling
Almost geezer, it's a Guzzi.
But yeah, that's one insane saddle...
Came across it on hols one year at Evans Head. A real rat rod job eh...
But yeah, that's one insane saddle...
Came across it on hols one year at Evans Head. A real rat rod job eh...
'82 GJ GSR Silver (family heirloom):)
Re: aluminium panelling
I thought it was a honda with a nasty custom frame! Someone takes an awful bike and makes it worse...
-
- Sigma-Galant Police (Global Mod)
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:48 am
- Location: melbourne
Re: aluminium panelling
bruggz351 wrote:Scorpma82 wrote:I'd be tempted to not fill the holes and get personal plates "GRATER"
Satan's Vasectomy!!!
Built with pride, Driven in anger
-
- Sigma-Galant Police (Global Mod)
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:48 am
- Location: melbourne
Re: aluminium panelling
amgis_obrut wrote:imagine the engine you could build for the cost of the alloy panels and even the new alloy panels would be subject to ADR's
hint, have a read of NCOP regarding fibreglass panels, bonnets and guards can be approved but they need to have a minimum thickness of 3.5mm
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/ ... 011_v3.pdf
And i have heard of fibreglass pannelling being ADR approved but i'm also worried how the paint job would come out if half of the car is fibreglass and the other half metal....at least with aluminium panels...it's still an 'all-steel' car....i personally would've thought it would be easier to ADR approve.
If I were to build a little purpose built toy/track hack...then i'd go down the path of removing absolutely panel and making a fibreglass version of them.
(TO be perfectly honest i'm deciding to build a track-hack sedan or a realy nice street bruiser)
Built with pride, Driven in anger
Re: aluminium panelling
The paint should be fine with no discernable difference between FRP and steel. If you are using metallic you will see a difference between the metal and the aluminium.
FRP is fine for non structual panels. In the case of the bonnet it will need to be braced, same for a boot lid.
As far as weight goes I really don't think you would be saving anything at all, in fact to achieve the same integrity of the steel panel I wouldn't be surprised if the glass panel was heavier.
Why are they used? Well as best as I can tell the two main reasons for using FRP panels are the ease of making your own if damaged (drift, speedway) and ease of modification (flares, vents etc.)
As far as road use goes I would be interested in FRP guards for two reasons, make a nice job of removing the indicators and they will never rust.
IMHO; The aluminium is a silly idea, it will never look right and will cost thousands.
FRP is fine for non structual panels. In the case of the bonnet it will need to be braced, same for a boot lid.
As far as weight goes I really don't think you would be saving anything at all, in fact to achieve the same integrity of the steel panel I wouldn't be surprised if the glass panel was heavier.
Why are they used? Well as best as I can tell the two main reasons for using FRP panels are the ease of making your own if damaged (drift, speedway) and ease of modification (flares, vents etc.)
As far as road use goes I would be interested in FRP guards for two reasons, make a nice job of removing the indicators and they will never rust.
IMHO; The aluminium is a silly idea, it will never look right and will cost thousands.
-
- Sigma-Galant Police (Global Mod)
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:48 am
- Location: melbourne
Re: aluminium panelling
well to be perfectly honest i havent done any quotes or costing s on it (or any other real research for that matter).......it was more of an idea/theory on something that MAY be able to be done......I had thought about making the bonnet and front guards one piece so i can get rid of the panel gaps to give it a smoother look.....and whilst i'm at it.....flare the hell out of the front guard to accept a wide front tyre.......was a thought/theory.....not much else to be honest......but i do appreciate the feedback +ve or -ve
Built with pride, Driven in anger